I’ve been considering writing a post along these lines for a while, since people considering a SRHP often ask me what Slovakian Rough Haired Pointers are like. Especially compared to their Weimaraner cousins.
I haven’t posted on the subject before now, because I only have one SRHP and it seems a bit unfair to extrapolate from her to the entire breed. Some of the things I feel about the breed are a bit negative, and I haven’t wanted to offend those who love them.
But I have taught 5 SRHPs in the dog training classes I run, as well as many more Weimaraners. I’ve seen many Weimaraners at working events, shows and training over the years. I’ve seen fewer SRHPs at these events, but still some. I have a couple of friends with SRHPs. So what I write is informed by all this and not only by my own two dogs.
I also should state the proviso that, since this is a new breed which has only recently been developed, it could be argued that there is no such thing as a settled and established SRHP personality/character. And that all which we can describe are the qualities emerging from the different lines. I think this is true, but to separate the breed further into the different lines, would be far too complicated.
The long and the short of it, is that they are absolutely nothing like Weimaraners in everything except for coat colour and eye colour. They are definitely not Weimaraners in a wire-haired coat. In fact, it is hard to believe they have considerable Weimaraner blood in them. Consequently, it always surprises me that the breeders who are behind this breed in the UK and elsewhere are almost exclusively Weimaraner breeders.
Relationships with other dogs
To begin with a positive point: I’ve only once seen any aggressive behaviour from a SRHP, and that dog had been attacked as a puppy and been traumatised by the experience.
Most of the other SRHPs I’ve met have had great temperaments with other dogs. Most have been very playful, even once they are older, and their boisterousness can mean they are a handful for their owner: Without good training, I can imagine them becoming very dog-focussed and making a bee-line to play with other dogs, ignoring their handler.
Many of the bitches I’ve met have had a submissive and gentle quality to them, tempered with a great desire to play. The male dogs I’ve met have been a bit more full-on and boisterously playful.
Coming from owning a Weimaraner, owning a SRHP was a walk in the park when it came to encounters with other dogs. Our Weimaraner takes offence at other dogs much more easily – whether they are sniffing her bum in some way which she doesn’t like, or whether they are being too assertive and confident when approaching her, or showing too much confidence when they sniff her nose… She is much less tolerant or forgiving of social faux pas.
She has never hurt or broken the skin of another dog, but other dogs do get ‘told off’, during encounters. She was extensively socialised as a puppy and this behaviour didn’t manifest itself until she reached maturity at around 18 months – 2 yrs.
Having seen many other Weims around at working events, it has to be said that Weims are (on average) much more difficult when it comes to interactions with other dogs. By comparison, owning a SRHP has been so ‘easy’ in this respect. This ease around other dogs is definitely something I could get used to!
Relationships with people
With people, again the SRHPs I’ve met have been exceptionally loving. Many adore physical affection in an almost cat-like way, and they will accept this from anyone who will offer it. (If a random passer-by says anything to Grey, in the street, she will want to get to them, and then lean against them for fuss.)
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Most Weimaraners, on the other hand, aren’t fans of big physical affection from a stranger. They may want to sniff a stranger and meet him or her in a more low-key way, but they are more ‘aloof’ in this respect. With their owners and family, on the other hand, Weims are extremely affectionate and demonstrate a lot of love for their people.
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A SRHP’s affection is indiscriminate and directed at every member of the human species – whilst a Weim is more selective and reserves most affection for close family. To me, there is more of a deep understanding between person and dog – an attachment – behind the Weimaraner’s affection. With the SRHP, there is more the quality of enjoying the physical fuss and patting. There is less something deep and meaningful and selective about it.
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Put another way: If I had to rehome our SRHP, I wouldn’t worry for a second about her settling in immediately – assuming her new owners were kind and met all her canine needs. Whereas, with our Weim, I would worry that she would pine and go off her food and would want us, in particular. When kennelled, our SRHP is happy to eat. Our Weim, unless she is given wet tasty food, will refuse to eat. (When usually she is a pig.)
Physical co-ordination
This might seem like a strange thing to mention, but it’s something I’ve noticed with our SRHP throughout her life.
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She is not very physically co-ordinated. This means that she gives the impression of not being aware of what her legs are doing, or perhaps even of where they are, or even that they belong to her.
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This manifests itself in various ways: She often falls asleep on her back, and as a puppy, she did this right next to a radiator. She managed to get one leg stuck behind the radiator, so that, on waking and turning in the opposite direction, she really hurt herself. By itself, this story is meaningless. But taken as an example of her attitude towards her appendages in general, it speaks volumes. She often sleeps with her legs bent at impossible-looking angles and her neck almost bent back on itself. She looks like a dead dog, mangled after a car accident!
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If she cuts her paw and I bathe it and bandage it, when she is then released, it takes her a good many long seconds to find (by nose/smell) where the part of her is, which I’ve been administering to. She cannot locate it by finding the part of her which she has felt (in her mind) being touched. (If I took your arm behind you, and jabbed a pin in a finger, you’d instantly be able to know which finger to look at, when I freed your arm. You wouldn’t need to examine each of your fingers for a pin-prick.) It’s as if there is no in-dwelt body awareness. I’ve often wondered if
Tellington Touch might be able to help to develop this, although I haven’t looked into it further. (Note to self to do so.)
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Other SRHPs I’ve met have been similarly uncoordinated, although I’d think this may not occur to owners as a problem or as something needing to be resolved, but rather as quite an appealing factor. On the one hand, this characteristic is very endearing: SRHPs have a reputation for
being very clownish and playing the fool. I’d suggest that part of the reason for such clownishness, is this lack of body-awareness and co-ordination, manifesting as a sort of endearing clumsiness.
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On the other hand, endearing or not, it makes training certain things quite difficult: Precision behaviours, for example. Just how to train a slightly more upright sit, or a right leg leading rather than a left leg, on agility, if you have a dog whose mind is out of touch with what her body is actually doing in the first place, in order for that to be shaped otherwise? Doing competitive Obedience with a SRHP would be something of a challenge.
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At the moment, this lack of co-ordination is affecting our agility training for working trials: Grey finds it hard to learn when to gather herself together and jump. (Or even – where is her self, in order to gather it together?) When encountering less formal obstacles out on walks (walls, fences), she goes about them with a gung-ho attitude and no attention to precision, just charging at them and throwing herself over them. She manages to make up for having no body awareness by just over-confidently throwing herself everywhere. (This is quite terrifying to watch sometimes, as I often expect a broken leg to be the result.)
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Weims, on the other hand, often excel at agility. Our Weim, Slate, jumps really well and has a great awareness of her body and where it is. Approaching a jump, I can see her eyeing it up and calculating where to take off from, in order to clear it. If I bandage or administer to one of Slate’s paws, she instantly knows which one it is!
Focus and concentration
Just as Grey’s body often seems to be all-over-the-place, so is her mind in many ways. She is very capable – when able to focus! However, she appears to have the canine equivalent of ADHD. (Adam and I joke that she has a peanut for a brain.)
With a lot of work (a disproportionate amount of work, to the outcome!), this has become much better. But still, reward-ratios need to be high in order to keep her focus over extended periods of time.
This is one of the reasons I worry we will never be able to compete with her in working trials: How will she sustain interest in her handler for long enough to manage heelwork requirements without any reinforcement? On 10 minute out-of-sight Down Stays and when Tracking, she sometimes just forgets what she’s doing. It’s as if she suddenly comes to, and thinks ‘What am I doing here? I don’t remember!’
Slate, on the other hand, came to a new training class with me this week and followed me through an entire obedience heelwork routine without a single treat, scarcely taking her eyes off me.
Perseverance and dealing with failure
This is related to focus and concentration…
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Even using entirely reward-based methods, Grey finds it difficult to bounce back from failure. When shaping with the clicker, Slate will keep trying new things if the first one doesn’t work. She wants the treat so much, that she will just keep going and keep working.
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Grey, on the other hand, will find failure itself to be so punishing, she will go and hide under the table if she tries something and I don’t click. I have to be very careful to reduce criteria quickly, if Grey fails at something, so that she can then get reinforcement again quickly. (In turn, this makes learning slower and giant leaps of insight less likely.)
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Retrieving
The SRHPs I’ve seen do have an inherent and natural desire to retrieve. However, it’s not quite as manic and obsessive as most Weimaraners. (Who I’d equate with labradors, in their keenness to retrieve.) The SRHP doesn’t find retrieving quite as inherently rewarding, and the retrieve may require more work.
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Conversely, I’ve not heard of any SRHPs with hard-mouth – and I’ve heard of many Weims with it.
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I’d also add that I’ve found teaching direction work to Grey incredibly frustrating and – despite great perseverance, ultimately impossible. This is whilst having a Weim which I’ve taught to move around almost like a piece on a chess board, giving labradors a run for their money at retriever training days. (Comparing
Slate and
Grey’s working test results speaks volumes.)
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From talking with others who’ve attempted to teach their SRHP to handle, they’ve experienced similar problems. Perhaps this is all tied in with a lack of body awareness: Perhaps it extends to a lack of geographical awareness – an inability to translate the casts from the handler into directions, to run in. After all, if you don’t know where you own feet are, how can you understand someone’s direction and translate it to your own physical body, as it is located in geographical space?
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I now think that all my attempts at direction training have only caused Grey to lose confidence and to know that it’s very possible to ‘fail’ to get the retrieve or reward, when we do distance work. This has been a blow to her confidence, such that she bugs (looks in different directions when lined up), and is sticky on casts (remaining in a sit, when cast). (Quite how all this is going to translate into working trials sendaways remains to be seen.)
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Were I to be starting gundog work from scratch with a SRHP, I would scrap all hope of having a handling dog and I’d rely on their excellent nose to run out and find the retrieve, even if that involved hunting up an entire field. I would prioritise developing confidence that sustained hunting will lead to a find. (Much in the way of the NAVHDA Duck Search.) I wish I had known this, before I started out with Grey. Instead, I tried to do with her what I’d done with Slate and to put her through a reinforcement based retriever training programme.
I’ve seen that it’s perfectly possible to be very successful in UK FTs with a non-handling dog. Not quite as possible to be successful in working tests, but that’s less important.
Hunting ability, range and nose
With the best examples of the breed: Excellent. I think, given sufficient game exposure when young, the SRHP will range acceptably well. There are a couple of excellent hunting SRHPs around. For an all-purpose, rough and ready gundog, the SRHP is great: They will get into bushes and dense cover, go through nettles and thorns – all things which my Weim (and most other Weims) will baulk at.
They are also excellent swimmers and tend to absolutely love water, labrador-style. Again – something which Weims are not renowned for – most Weims are reluctant swimmers.
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Due to their thicker/warmer coat, they are happier in cooler weather and they can be uncomfortable in the summer. They are very happy to remain in Down or Sit Stays in wet conditions – unlike many Weimaraners, who often stand up from stays in wet weather.
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And, as mentioned above, they will hurl themselves over most obstacles (uncoordinatedly!).
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Grey often winds things from a greater distance than Slate and works a scent better. I’d say she has a better nose.
Noise & vocalisation
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Beware of this, in SRHPs! Excitement almost invariably translates into barking, whining, yowling and vocalising whilst yawning.
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Despite our relentlessly and persistently ignoring the noise and not giving her whatever it is she wants, it continues to be an issue. Even whilst writing this, Grey is whining upstairs at me, anticipating her breakfast and training. I will wait this out, but it could be a very long time and she appears unaware of the noise she is making.
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I know from others with SRHPs that they also struggle with noise issues constantly, so this is not particular to Grey.
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In comparison, Slate is relatively silent. She will bark if she hears a strange noise and has more guarding tendencies than Grey does. And occasionally, if we are going to a particularly exciting event, she will make noise in the car as we arrive. But on average she is a much quieter dog, which rarely whines.
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In short…
SRHPs are nothing like Weimaraners. If you find yourself considering both, you may be putting too much emphasis on the appearance of your dog and not enough on other non-appearance based characteristics. You might also need to meet more of each breed, in the flesh, so these differences become more evident to you.
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If you’re looking for a rough shooting companion with a gung-ho attitude and, besides steadiness to flush, you’re not bothered about a great degree of precision, then a SRHP would be a great dog.
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If you want to compete in any other dog sport, I wouldn’t recommend one.
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As a family pet, if you know what you’re getting into, and are prepared to put in a lot of time on the training front, they could be a good choice.
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Tagged: breeding, canine genetics, clicker training, dog ownership, hunting, immunity, inbreeding, Slovakian Rough Haired Pointer health, swimming, training class, working test
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